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 Post subject: Player Retention
PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2016 5:52 am 
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Good morning everyone.

I've logged into SoM the past few days and I haven't seen more than 4 players online (including myself). When SoM was re-released it was booming with 80 or so people online at a time. Sure people we're fighting and competing for top spots, but it was an active and exciting community. I'm curious of peoples opinions strictly from a player population standpoint. As people know, looting is one of the things about SoM that is a ton of fun, gets your heart rate going and provides quick benefits. However I feel the cons out weigh the good. We've all seen many players quit the game with a message like "**** this game, I was looted" blah blah blah. If the game was more PVE focused, with not so harsh penalties for being PK'd, such as losing a percentage of materials you're collecting in the area, more people would hang around and play.

This is coming from someone who loves to PK and loot. I realize it makes people leave, specially those with little time and just want to play when they get a chance. But the problem lies when they're super high level players, camping in areas where people use to progress to stronger weapons and armor so they're limited to where they can go. The asking price for items becomes ridiculous and no one but super high leveled characters thrive. I don't think removing looting entirely from the game is a solution. But give people the option to accept a duel, and the loser drops their gear. More gear would be steadily available as people will have the means to collect it.

The wonderful thing about the internet is it brings so many different kinds of people together. A lot of the people who pop by still are people who have played SoM for over ten years. SoM is something I think even a newer generation would enjoy, if only the community was a little less cut throat. I think it can be done. Retro games are a popular thing.

Please comment, join the discussion. I'd love to know what people think and hopefully together, we can come up with a way to make SoM thrive as we know it's able to.






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 Post subject: Re: Player Retention
PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2016 1:19 pm 
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If the game was designed properly, people wouldn't quit to being looted.

AKA: build the game with tiers, using the same color system.

1-100: only white, grey, orange training areas, with orange being the best experience/fastest gear.
100-200: only grey, orange, yellow training areas, with yellow being the best experience/faster gear.

So on and so forth until the very very very end the of game content is all openly red/black pvp.

Could probably serve to lower farms about 25% across the board and spot clean some others.




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 Post subject: Re: Player Retention
PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2016 2:21 pm 
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I like that idea as well. Thank you for the contribution, Bones. I'd like to see some others leave some feedback as well. As we can see, new players have been logging in every day.
I think as a community there has to be a way to come to some conclusion that will keep the gaming going. We all know it's a good game, but they're certain things about SoM that make people leave.




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 Post subject: Re: Player Retention
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 7:00 am 
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There is definitely a problem with holding players because of looting. No one wants to play a game you spend a ton of time on just to lose everything to someone who's played longer or more. My idea was simply that you can't kill players too far from your level. Make a level cap where you can only kill players 50-100 levels in any direction from your level. This will make it fair game to fight someone that's around your level. Instead of being squashed by someone super high level you didn't even stand a chance against.



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 Post subject: Re: Player Retention
PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2016 3:49 am 
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Hi everyone,

Looting is something that can very quickly ruin this game for someone, but can also make it exciting if you could kill someone closer to you level and maybe gain some gear you don't have, or pad your pocket with some coins. My thoughts are:

1) Maybe adding a lootable level cap that's the same as the party requirements, whereas the person who is pk'ed only loses the gear type in the one (red, yellow, black) if the person is within the level cap. (this does not apply to NPCs obviously)
2) Making unnecessary looting a punishable offence. I can't see why it would make any logical sense for a player to pk another player and loot them when there is a large level gap greater than the party level cap.
3) Adding player bounties on players that have pk'ed you RECENTLY or automatic bounties on someone who has pk'ed a player that is well below their level (party level cap maybe?). The bounty for the auto-bounties could be a piece of gear, or something like that, that may have a small percentage of dropping once the bounty is fulfilled. Regular bounties would be for gold or an item, or maybe a bounty tokens or something (this may be hard to regulate).

I don't know what the actual answer is, but from personal experience, unnecessary looting or frequent looting by high level players ruins the game for low level ones.

Rhokin



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 Post subject: Re: Player Retention
PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2016 9:20 am 
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Rhokin wrote:
I don't know what the actual answer is, but from personal experience, unnecessary looting or frequent looting by high level players ruins the game for low level ones.


I can't think of an instance where looting is "necessary" either. But it is a mechanic of the game. As for ruining it for newer players, I can tell you many of the players who play today were all new once and have all dealt with the exact thing you're posting. And what did we do? We certainly didn't complain to the administration to discourage the mechanic. No instead, we learned to play strategically and be smart about what zone we train in. I hope you thought of this :P




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 Post subject: Re: Player Retention
PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2016 1:33 pm 
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I don't disagree with you Yuso. I'm aware it's part of the game, but the discussion thread was about addressing this type of thing. Just about every good piece of gear involves farming in a red zone, so it makes it difficult when people are relatively new to the game (ex. Augmented/nimbles ring quest). Maybe the best solution is to keep it the same. They are simply ideas and no one to my knowledge has complained to administration, at least not recently. We are talking about getting people in to the game and boosting player base and retention. The type of players that do make a habit of looting people relatively early on (before lvl 100 mainly i would think) are affecting the game negatively.



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 Post subject: Re: Player Retention
PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2016 4:25 am 
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Looting is absolutely part of the game, and it's one of my favorite mechanics as I previously said. But I have first hand experience of people quitting after I looted them and they couldn't get their gear back for what it was (at the time) worth. Yes, my fault for doing that, but I can recognize that I did cause it. Nasumat, who is known as a prominent looter said...

Quote:
Nasumat: It's not designed for player retention whatsoever

Quote:
Nasumat: This game is both a grind fest and high risk for the massive time invested. It's a double hardcore genre that won't appeal to most people even if they were initially interested

Quote:
Nasumat: I enjoy looting but i'd enjoy a thriving population more, even if looting wasn't as big a part of the game


We know SoM is hard, we grew up playing it. But people and players have changed. They don't want to struggle, they want to enjoy the experience. SoM can thrive, it just needs to be more welcoming and not so unforgiving. Looting doesn't need to disappear, and with more equipment circulating around there is guaranteed to be lots of equipment duels. A tiered collecting system like Bones suggested would work, but people shouldn't have to worry that their days of work will disappear in an instant. Just because it we can take it, doesn't mean your average Joe can.




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 Post subject: Re: Player Retention
PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2016 5:41 pm 
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lol




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 Post subject: Re: Player Retention
PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2016 1:19 pm 
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rank wrote:
lol


Hey man, appreciate the solid contribution as per your usual self.




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 Post subject: Re: Player Retention
PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2016 4:18 pm 
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Prince Darien wrote:
rank wrote:
lol


Hey man, appreciate the solid contribution as per your usual self.

Teehee :lol:




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 Post subject: Re: Player Retention
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 12:58 pm 
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Bones wrote:
If the game was designed properly, people wouldn't quit to being looted.

AKA: build the game with tiers, using the same color system.

1-100: only white, grey, orange training areas, with orange being the best experience/fastest gear.
100-200: only grey, orange, yellow training areas, with yellow being the best experience/faster gear.

So on and so forth until the very very very end the of game content is all openly red/black pvp.

Could probably serve to lower farms about 25% across the board and spot clean some others.



He hits on some decent points for sure, I think the bottom line is people need ways they can train and make money without the fear of being looted. Furthermore, it shouldn't take 3 or 4 days of 4 hours of solid playing, which lest we forget, is all some people can afford to commit. Now some would argue this makes gear too easy to get, that without the risk it's unfair to others who do risk gear by gathering in dangerous zones. All good points.. Honestly, it's a tough problem to deal with, and one that might require a bit more thought.

Multiple items of the same stat requirement with differing amounts of durability and damage and/or damage reduced? Just a thought, or course that's a lot of work for admins as well.




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 Post subject: Re: Player Retention
PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2016 12:35 pm 
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only newbs collect




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 Post subject: Re: Player Retention
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 4:31 am 
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I think this is something that needs to be discussed once again. I see developer activity here, so obviously people still care.




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 Post subject: Re: Player Retention
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 4:53 pm 
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Any game with long grinds for levels/gear, perma losing items through breaking or being looted by a npc or player and sorta non optional high stakes pvp is going to have issues with keeping anyone other than fans who played during SoM's glory days and come back. Competing with the newer games of today and even free games like this one but use a more advanced engine doesn't do SoM any favors, either.

Games like this always run into the same problems, some players get ahead in terms of levels and gear and then the game is theirs; it's hard to farm stuff when someone who is 300+ levels ahead of you in end game gear decides to kill you. It's even harder when the strongest players band together to do it, you either suck up to them and hope they let you farm or play when they aren't on. And while pvp, looting other players, forming guilds and hunting or being hunted by other players is a big part of these types of games, it's a "hardcore" game design that has little appeal to the majority.

New people try it, make some progress, and either break something or get killed by a higher leveled player that basically 1 shots them even with decent stuff causing them to lose gear and decide "this isn't for me" and they quit. And really, who can blame them for doing so? This game needs a massive time investment that many can't afford to put into with everything else they may have going on.

It's an old game design that hasn't aged well.



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